Curse

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Thinking back to when I first got interested in Guildwars, "A grind free skill based competitive team role playing game". The game was marketed to everyone, as quests with things mmorpgs can't do, competitive player vrs player environments, and most importantly, Fun not item hunting.

Skill was to be rewarded not timespent, Arenanet had a new champion in Online gaming.

It is sad to see the game become nothing more then another grinding mmorpg.

Now I know a lot of you say this ins't true, but it is. Unfortunately to be competitive in PvP you are required to grind 100's of hours. Exactly the opposite of every advertisement of Guildwars.

The new patches seem to be making it worse and the general idea is Arena.net does not really care. They made a game, they are selling it.

The problem is they lied in a lot of advertising, and in how the squeezed this grind into the last few weeks is very bad.

Anyway this thread is just a general discussion on the topic that guildwars is item based, grind based, and is not a shadow of what it once was.

Guilds spend 97% of the time Grinding away on this stupid game, and it's getting really ridiculous.

Arena.Net, Will you uphold the promises you make? Or will a game I used to Love, Guildwars, be tarnished and called Grindwars by everyone in the gaming community?

JediNeophyte · May 12, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

You can grind, yes, but I fail to see how this gives the grinder an insurmountable advantage in PvP. I do not grind (ever), and I do fine in PvP. Hell, I dominate, with off-the-shelf PvP characters.

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

Now I know a lot of you say this ins't true, but it is. Unfortunately to be competitive in PvP you are required to grind 100's of hours. Exactly the opposite of every advertisement of Guildwars.

Please explain yourself, because you have alot of explaining to do. I ascended and have the best armor *stat wise* atm and am completely competative in PvP, and it took me a grand total of maybe 4-5days playtime. Well below 100hrs. Even further below 100's of hours. Please back up your statement, because of course we're going to say it isn't true when we have every reason in the world to believe otherwise.

Also note, this is starting from scratch with a PvE character. Techincally you can be competative in PvP the second you login by creating a PvP character with a template.

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNeophyte

You can grind, yes, but I fail to see how this gives the grinder an insurmountable advantage in PvP. I do not grind (ever), and I do fine in PvP. Hell, I dominate, with off-the-shelf PvP characters.

+50 health

+damage etc with unlockables

ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage)

+1 to all skills

+2 to any skill with minimal health drawback

+3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback

It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice.

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kordesh

Please explain yourself, because you have alot of explaining to do. I ascended and have the best armor *stat wise* atm and am completely competative in PvP, and it took me a grand total of maybe 4-5days playtime. Well below 100hrs. Even further below 100's of hours. Please back up your statement, because of course we're going to say it isn't true when we have every reason in the world to believe otherwise.

That is one character, to really compete in PvP you need versatility and counters, you basically need every skill unlocked.

Because out there is someone who grinded away, who does, and he will beat your ass based on timespent.

Quarantine · May 12, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

wow, this game made it a whole 2 weeks without the 'company X is out to get me with false advertising since i cant pwn everybody' whiners

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

+50 health

+damage etc with unlockables

ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage)

+1 to all skills

+2 to any skill with minimal health drawback

+3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback

It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice.

Except for the fact that you can't combine them all! You can have 2 upgrades on your weapon, and 1 upgrade per piece of armor. also, the upgrades do not stack. You might have a TINY, and I stress tiny, advantage over someone who started a template PvP character. Also, as I stated before, it's easy to make a lvl 20 PvE character and even easier to get most of the runes/skills to whip something better than stock up in PvP.

Mountain Man · May 12, 2005, 04:34 PM // 16:34

People keep complaining about this. Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wondering what you have to substantiate your complaints.

As I understand it, you don't need to grind to be competitive, but old habits die hard it seems.

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

That is one character, to really compete in PvP you need versatility and counters, you basically need every skill unlocked.

....I have every skill unlocked. I am maybe missing 3-5 elite skills that need to be captured on my lvl 20 PvE character. If you're talking about EVERY skill across EVERY class, don't be stupid. If you're changing classes every 2 seconds to be "competative" you have issues. I have almost all the mesmer and necro skills unlocked in a few days playtime. Hardly hundreds of hours.

And PS: I hope they have a full TEAM of people who grinded away with these supposed uber abilities, because when it comes down to it, it's team vs team, not 1v1.

JediNeophyte · May 12, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

+50 health

+damage etc with unlockables

ability to actually make your own build (400% advantage)

+1 to all skills

+2 to any skill with minimal health drawback

+3 to any skill with mediocre health drawback

It gives a big enough advantage for anyone knowledgeable to notice.

I have several unlocked runes and weapon upgrades on each of my PvP chars, and a ton of unlocked Warrior and Monk skills. How did I get them without grinding you ask? By playing the game. All of these I have gotten during the course of normal gameplay. No grinding, no farming.

You, sir, are talking out of your ass.

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountain Man

People keep complaining about this. Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just wondering what you have to substantiate your complaints.

As I understand it, you don't need to grind to be competitive, but old habits die hard it seems.

As you understand it, wait till you actually play pvp.

I have held HoH, have 2230 fame and #7 on guild ladder, played in every BWE, highest spot held #3.

I have tested the game in alpha testing, I know what I am talking about.

Sorry but all the little boosts add up to a big one.

also

Unruned
attributes

12
12
3

Runed

12
12
11

or

16
13
3

That in itself is a big advantage.

around 25% more effective.

Typhoon · May 12, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

All the PvP templates get FREE weapons and equipment with the best base stats possible. Any item modifier that you unlock in RP play has UNLIMITED uses when creating a PvP template.

What are you complaining about?

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNeophyte

I have several unlocked runes and weapon upgrades on each of my PvP chars, and a ton of unlocked Warrior and Monk skills. How did I get them without grinding you ask? By playing the game. All of these I have gotten during the course of normal gameplay. No grinding, no farming.

You, sir, are talking out of your ass.

How many supperiors?

Whats you vigor at?

450 skills, how many have you unlocked?

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Typhoon

All the PvP templates get FREE weapons and equipment with the best base stats possible. Any item modifier that you unlock in RP play has UNLIMITED uses when creating a PvP template.

What are you complaining about?

rofl, the fact that when it comes down to it, you know nothing about pvp.

PvP is not about templates, its about costum team builds.

Runes allow you to do 25% more damage, steal 25% more energy.

They are worth it,

Also no premade comes close to the damage or healing my costums do.

Medijunk · May 12, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

This isn't a grind. If you want a real grind play Lineage 2. Then come back and talk about Guild Wars being a grind.

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Unruned
attributes

12
12
3

Runed

12
12
11

or

16
13
3

That in itself is a big advantage.

around 25% more effective.

Ok now I know you're talking out of your ass because that's not possible. As I stated before, runes of the same type DO NOT STACK. You can use a rune for one attribute ONCE on your entire set of armor. Even then, using 3 superior runes would result in about -250hp. Have fun with that.

JediNeophyte · May 12, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

How many supperiors?

Whats you vigor at?

450 skills, how many have you unlocked?

You ask those questions as if they are required to be "competitive" in PvP. They are not. Do not base your asinine claims on fallacious reasoning.

BE|Dac · May 12, 2005, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medijunk

This isn't a grind. If you want a real grind play Lineage 2. Then come back and talk about Guild Wars being a grind.

One member of the guild has 2 lvl 75 l2 characters.

Longest grind session is 48 hours.

He thinks the grind in guildwars sucks.

Kordesh · May 12, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Ok, guys, I suggest we stop posting on this topic. This guy is obviously and blatantly BSing everyone. My suggestion, don't feed the trolls. I'm out of this. Most of us know better anyway.

Mountain Man · May 12, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by BE|Dac

As you understand it, wait till you actually play pvp.

I suppose it's a moot point because I have little interest in PvP.

Quote:

I have held HoH, have 2230 fame and #7 on guild ladder, played in every BWE, highest spot held #3.

I have tested the game in alpha testing, I know what I am talking about.

That's all well and good, but I ask again: Do you have any examples where grinding and item farming has given any person or group a significant advantage? I'm not talking about numerical advantages, I'm talking about actual in-game advantage, such as a team of grinders dominating the PvP arena.